Ahriman: The Spirit of Destruction with Puja Guha!

Puja Guha grew up and has worked all over the world. Her spy thriller series THE AHRIMAN LEGACY is an Amazon bestseller, and she has been featured on TV and media, including Fox5, Reader’s Digest, and The London Post.

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Espionage. Assassins. Middle East. 2021.

Three years ago, a traumatic op forced her into a quiet life as an analyst. But after new intel surfaces on a terrorist plot Kuwait, intelligence agent Petra Shirazi has no choice but to return to the field. Thrust back into a violent world she vowed to leave behind, Petra must face her personal demons and her guilt over the death of one of her sources.

A money trail exposes a massive wave of terrorist attacks, implicating the highest levels of the Kuwaiti and Iranian governments. All signs point to the Ahriman, the Iranian mastermind behind the cruelest and deadliest attacks in history. Petra must confront her past if she is to stop the world from tilting into an abyss from which there is no return. The race to stop the Ahriman begins.

Fans of global espionage thrillers like Patriot Games and The Day of the Jackal will love this fast-paced spy novel from master storyteller Puja Guha. Find out why The US Review of Books says: “Like Grisham and Clancy … this title shines among the genre simply through superb storytelling.”

Let’s talk about Kuwait. You were inspired to write Ahriman: The Spirit of Destruction while visiting family in Kuwait. You thought about the nuances of the Kuwaiti political system.

• Kuwait is a major oil exporter and historically one of the richest countries in the Middle East.
• Of the 4.8M people living in Kuwait, 1.5M are Kuwaiti citizens; the rest are foreign nationals.
• Kuwait is a constitutional monarchy. The Emir (king) doesn’t have legislative powers while the National Assembly (Parliament) is in session. The Emir can disband the Assembly.
• The monarchy is more moderate than the democratically elected Assembly. The monarchy has enabled progress for women (not requiring burkas; women can drive, vote, and run for office). Women gained the right to vote in 2005. Accused of being puppets of the west.
• Political instability and chronic political deadlock have hampered Kuwait’s economic development and infrastructure. Islamist and liberal factions can’t agree on anything, including how many traffic lights to install on one of the main roads.

In the prologue, we meet Kasem Ismaili and “Lila’s” friend Nurah Bahar. Jamal is sleeping on Kasem’s sofa. Kasem is kidnapped. Puja Guha, how did you decide to the start the novel here?

Petra attends a meeting. “The eight individuals in the room covered as many countries, each with their own unique ethnic and racial backgrounds” (7-8). A secret organization was created to cater to global intelligence needs without being bogged down in political bureaucracy (121). The Agency tackles global threats other intelligence organizations can’t handle. Let’s talk about the Agency.

Transcript

Sarah Harrison: 0:24

Welcome to Tea, Tonic and Toxin, a book club and podcast for anyone who wants to explore the best mysteries and thrillers ever written. I'm your host, Sarah Harrison.

Carolyn Daughters: 0:35

And I'm your host, Carolyn Daughters. Pour yourself a cup of tea, a gin and tonic, but not a toxin, and join us on a journey through 19th and 20th century mysteries and thrillers, every one of them a game changer.

Sarah Harrison: 1:04

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Carolyn Daughters: 1:38

Today's interview with Puja Guha is our first interview for 2025. We'll be discussing

Sarah Harrison: 1:51

My goodness, but it's probably like October 2025. We're a couple months behind. We have a really amazing guest today.

Carolyn Daughters: 2:16

We are going to discuss a book of hers, also talk about her, about her writing process, about her travels. She's so interesting, we're very excited about this. The book we're going to talk about specifically today is

called Ahriman: 2:38

The Spirit of Destruction. It's Book One in the Ahriman Legacy series and a super gripping page turner. I loved it. I learned a lot. It hit like all of those cylinders for me, basically.

Sarah Harrison: 2:54

It's gonna be really interesting.

Carolyn Daughters: 3:00

Let me just quickly let everybody know a bit about the book. We're not going to spoil it because you're going to want to read this one, but just to give you an idea of what we're working with here, espionage, assassins, Middle East 2021 three years ago, a traumatic op forced Petra Shirazi into a quiet life as an analyst. But after new Intel surfaces on a terrorist plot intelligence, she's an intelligence agent, she has no choice but to return to the field. Thrust back into a violent world she vowed to leave behind, Petra must face her personal demons and her guilt over the death of one of her sources. A money trail exposes a massive wave of terrorist attacks, implicating the highest levels of the Kuwaiti and Iranian governments. All signs point to the Ahriman, the Iranian mastermind behind the coolest and deadliest attacks in history. Petra, must confront her past if she is to stop the world from tilting into an abyss from which there is no return. The race to stop the Ahriman begins. Fans of global espionage thrillers like Patriot Games and The Day of the Jackal will love this fast-paced spy novel from master storyteller Puja Guha. Find out why the U.S. Review of Books says like Grisham and Clancy, this title shines among the genre simply through superb storytelling.

Sarah Harrison: 4:30

It's a trilogy, right?

Puja Guha: 4:33

No five books, actually.

Sarah Harrison: 4:35

Five. Oh, I just had the first three goodness.

Carolyn Daughters: 4:38

Sarah and I have distributed the various books and are reading in random order, I guess. Well, we both started with one.

Sarah Harrison: 4:49

Well, I have the distinct pleasure to introduce Puja Guha, who grew up and has worked all over the world, something she channels into her seven novels. With settings from New York to Madagascar to Iran. So far, she has traveled to more than 60 countries, each of which she hopes to someday include in one of her novels, her spy thriller series, The Ahriman Legacy is an Amazon bestseller, and she has been featured on TV and media, including Fox Five, Reader's Digest, and the London Post.

Puja Guha: 5:22

Thank you so much for having me, Carolyn and Sarah. I'm so excited to be here.

Sarah Harrison: 5:27

You have a longer bio somewhere I read.

Puja Guha: 5:37

I definitely have a longer bio on my website and in other places. But no, I'm not a spy, although I do get that question a lot.

Sarah Harrison: 5:47

I mean, she can't say she has folks, and we've asked her to read a beginning of her book. So I'll save my questions till after that.

Puja Guha: 5:58

Okay, thank you so much. So just a quick bit of background before I jump into the reading of The Ahriman Legacy. So like Carolyn was saying, Petra is the lead character of the story. She's a former spy, now research operative, but still working in intelligence. Also in this scene is Chris, her boss/good friend, former mentor, a complicated relationship, and then some others from the agency team. You'll hear their names there. That's fine. Veronica, Brian, a few others from the team, and I'm going to jump right in.

Puja Guha (reading from The Ahriman Legacy): 6:45

They've intercepted a recording, and they're trying to figure out what the implications are and what to do about it. Petra, What's your first impression? Brian asked. The intercepted call is a conversation between an official and what sounds like one of his aides. Chris, can you pull up our agent's written translation? Sure Petra Chris pressed a few buttons on his tablet keypad, and the written script appeared on the projected screen. Malik, I have requested the presence of our visitor. You've done well. When does he arrive? Tomorrow morning. How much did you agree to pay him? 30 million euros, the max we agreed upon. Very well, it's a necessary expense. Thank you for your trust. In my judgment, you've grown in the time we've worked together. You've earned that trust. Your efforts are an important part of our upcoming journey. Once she had read the translation, Petra said there are a couple of nuances I want to point out. They use the word Malik, which does denote sir. So as I said before, this is some official talking to one of his aides. They also use the word rah, which I want to emphasize, as the translation says means journey and not jihad. Based on what I've just heard, I'm not sure this call has anything to do with terrorism, but 30 million euros, Veronica asked he's a lower level politician, what could cost that much and where are they getting it? We'll have to figure that out rook and to note some kind of endeavor, which might mean an attack, especially with that kind of money at play, Petra replied, but it could also mean something else. So we should consider other possibilities. Do we have any additional context? According to our agent, a call was intercepted from the home of Marzouk fayed, a conservative member of the Kuwaiti National Assembly. Brian said, as he read from a small screen embedded in the table, former member, I should say, given the Amir dissolved the assembly earlier this month, we haven't been able to trace the other end of the call. Fayed was re elected to Parliament after the Emir dissolved the Assembly last year, and will probably be re elected in two months. Chris added he's an ultra conservative, one of the major proponents of a stream of Islamist legislation, including heightened school segregation. Petra nodded. I agree he would be a proponent of Islamic law, but that wouldn't necessarily make him anti American. Kuwait has never been a stronghold for Al Qaeda in. That's true. Veronica acknowledged, but that kind of money definitely merits an investigation. You're certainly right about that. Petra agreed. Brian, can you give me access to all the files? I'm going to do more research on this. Chris, I need your authorization to call in two of my analysts to work with me on this. You got it okay? Then let me know if anything else comes up on the grid. Petra stood up ready to leave. Will do? Chris agreed also. Veronica, can you liaise with some of your operatives to see if we can trace that money to somewhere in Europe, I'll need to contact Swiss Intel to get some real leads. Veronica replied, that's fine. Do what you have to do. You know the drill. Keep things quiet. Chris said, I will. He gave them a tight nod. Let's get to work. Meeting adjourned. It was May 15, 2021 it was the year when global economies continued to plummet, despite analysts predictions of a turnaround. It was the year when the Kuwaiti National Assembly consisted of the largest Islamic contingent in more than two decades. It was the month when the price of oil plunged to $20 a barrel. It was the month when the Emir of Kuwait dissolved the National Assembly for the 13th time in 15 years. It was the day when the head of the Islamic majority of the assembly hired an assassin and the CIA intercepted intelligence about a new wave of terrorist attacks. It was the day that would change the face of the Middle East forever.

Carolyn Daughters: 12:01

Awesome. You had me with "changing the face of the Middle East forever." I was like, oh, okay, this is, this is intriguing. And Petra is such an interesting protagonist. I want to start with talking about Kuwait, which is a country that, in theory, I know a regular amount about. You know, through history, through news.

Sarah Harrison: 12:38

A regular standard American amount.

Carolyn Daughters: 12:40

A regular, standard American amount, which is equates to negative two on a scale of one to 10. But I learned a lot about Kuwait. But even before, let's get into like what what is really gripping here is this character, Petra Shirazi. Where did you come up with this character? And did this character fuel the story, or did you have a story and then you decided, okay, I want this character, Petra, to lead the story. What's the origin here?

Puja Guha: 13:13

Is she a cover name? Absolutely, yes.

Carolyn Daughters: 13:18

Are you Petra in The Ahriman Legacy? And are you spy?

Puja Guha: 13:22

Oh, Petra has a lot of things that are like me, some things which are definitely not. I mean, she's half Iranian, half American. So while the feeling of a mixed identity is something that we both definitely share. That identity is not the same. But we did both grow up in Kuwait, so that is something very similar. We both went to Penn. There are definitely things that I drew on in terms of what came first Petra or the original plot. I mean, they came very close to the same time the original plot was first. But as soon as I started thinking about how I actually wanted the story of this assassination plot on the emir, the monarch of Kuwait, to unfold, I knew she just appeared to me, I knew she was going to lead the story. Authors, we have crazy things. We talk to our characters. We get to know them very well. They just show up. And until they're on the page, they don't, they don't shut up.

Carolyn Daughters: 14:35

You thought that she would be a good counterpoint to this character who is known as Ahriman.

Puja Guha: 14:42

Yeah, and I felt her background when I was writing The Ahriman Legacy. Being closely tied to Kuwait without being Kuwaiti is something that would bond her into this story. Despite the trauma of her past, she gets drawn back into the field, and there's a number of reasons for that. Some of them are more like she's not going to have a career at the agency if she doesn't do it, but at the same time, she could have another career if she wanted to, but a big part of that is also she doesn't want the country she grew up in to fall apart.

Sarah Harrison: 15:29

Talk about growing up in Kuwait. What was that like?

Unknown: 15:35

I mean, in a lot of ways, not that different from what most people would think about, we had plenty of friends around. I went to an international school, the American School, so pretty diverse set up a fair amount of Americans, a fair amount of Kuwaitis, and then lots of other Arabs, Indians, Pakistanis, kind of a full mix. Kuwait is very international, because Kuwait's population is very small.

Carolyn Daughters: 16:15

The data I have here is there's data in the book, and the book was published several years ago, but there are 4.8 million people living in Kuwait and 1.5 of them, 1.5 million are Kuwaiti citizens. Everybody else is a foreign national. And that, I was very surprised to learn. That's incredible. So there's a huge foreign population in Kuwait.

Puja Guha: 16:37

Absolutely. It's definitely the foreign population drives the labor force and the economy as a whole. So it's very, very mixed, lots and lots of people from all over the place, both in the very, very professional. My parents are both architects. That's where they were, architecture business, construction, all kinds of other stuff. And then on the more housekeepers, drivers, that kind of thing as well. There's quite a few that have come in from different parts of South and Southeast Asia.

Carolyn Daughters: 17:20

Maybe people supporting the oil business.

Puja Guha: 17:23

Supporting the oil business, supporting construction work, supporting mostly major projects like that, the oil business and and new construction works, although that kind of stuff in Kuwait has been a lot less than In other parts of the region.

Sarah Harrison: 17:43

Have you stayed with it over the years? Do you go back and visit a lot, or do you still have ties there?

Puja Guha: 17:49

I have some ties. I visited a lot until 2017 when my parents retired, and they initially moved back to India, and now they spend their times split between India and and Canada. So since 2017 not nearly as much. A lot of the family, friends and stuff that I grew up with have also now retired and gone back to to other places. Some of them are in North America. Some are back in India. You have a few that are still there, but and then some of our close Kuwaiti friends, one of them passed. And so I think because of that, both me and my parents haven't wanted to go back as much recently, because it just wouldn't be the same without him.

Carolyn Daughters: 18:42

So you're in Kuwait at some point, visiting family, and the idea for The Ahriman Legacy came to you because maybe just okay, living there is one thing. And then you go away, and then when you come back, you can see it, maybe with fresher or newer eyes, and you realize there's so much political nuance in this country that's just, it's like, really, like, ready to be the focus point of a story?

Puja Guha: 19:10

Absolutely. So I was back in Kuwait on vacation from my first job. This was back in 2008 2009 and I won't have the numbers exactly right here, but I think it was the ninth time in 10 years or something, that the Emir had dissolved parliament or the National Assembly. And it just struck me, because every time they're re elected, the National Assembly has become more and more polarized. So there is a very liberal faction that has championed women's rights and all kinds of things, but there is also a very strong Islamist faction, and despite the fact that the monarchy is quite progressive, that really ultra conservative faction has grown more powerful with each re-election in.

Sarah Harrison: 20:00

That was a super interesting part of The Ahriman Legacy that you highlighted how this Joint Rule between the monarchy and the democratically elected officials were opposite of what people might think. The democracy component was much more fundamentalist than the monarch. Narco component was a lot more progressive. And Petra brings that up a number of times in the book. Did you see that play out during your time there? And what did that look like for you?

Puja Guha: 20:32

Oh, yeah. And so the emir officially, I mean, unofficially, back channeling. He must have been doing this for years, but the he just tried to push female voting rights through Parliament took about five years to do it, and that was just in the press, above board, like all the public stuff. So I'm sure that behind the scenes, women got the right to vote.

Carolyn Daughters: 20:57

I think in 2005 in Kuwait there was a lot of political instability. There's two factions, and as you say, every time the National Assembly is disbanded, it comes back together. And maybe those factions are more polarized. So like this, this is, like, a great, like, foundation, I think, for a story. And at one point she mentions Petra mentions in The Ahriman Legacy that the Islamist and liberal factions can't agree on anything, including how many lights to put on one of the main roads. So, like, if something so like, straightforward and simple can't be resolved, how do you tackle the larger issues? This is the setting here for a lot of the events that are going to play out in this book. And you experienced this when you were there, as someone living in Kuwait.

Puja Guha: 21:57

For sure. Everything from really simple decrees with the Ministry of Education, to street lighting, to how Kuwait University's new campus would be set up, all kinds of small things that higher level government officials probably shouldn't be involved With anyway. And then obviously the bigger stuff, like women's right to vote.

Carolyn Daughters: 22:25

And then it becomes, like, this potential slippery slope, right? So you could almost see why everybody's got their hand in the pie at that low level. Because, like, if you start letting something slip away, thenyou may look back in a year or two and wish you know, if you're one of those two factions that you had held firmer, and so everybody is is really resolved to support their faction. And so into this is, is this guy who we learn his I think name is Mustafa Mubarak, and he's the Ahriman. And he comes in very early in this story, and he is gonna take on a job. He's not sure what it is. At first, they say the notes are in this file in this envelope, read this offline. He goes offline, and rolls his eyes, offline. Says, Oh, another kill. And so it's this secret organization created to cater to global intelligence needs without being bogged down in bureaucracy or all the different things that mire these intelligence organizations world, rat worldwide. And so they're they fly below the radar, they can tackle things that these other agencies can't. And at one point in the beginning of The Ahriman Legacy, Petra walks into this meeting, and there's eight people in the room, and they're from eight different countries, each with their own unique ethnic and racial backgrounds. And I thought like, Okay, this is a really interesting choice to create an agency for her to work for, instead of falling back on an existing agency. So, like, what prompted that decision to say, Okay, I'm not putting her as a CIA operative. It's it made me think a little bit of the TV show alias, which I loved. And so it's like, no, she's under, under cover, like she is there. They're off in this other place, all together, doing, doing their thing, like, so how did you come up with this idea?

Puja Guha: 24:32

Well, big part of it was when I thought about if I wanted to place her in the CIA, I figured I would have to deal with real procedures and set up and hierarchy that gets very, very complex. And while I had no problem trying to do that research, I knew very. Well, that I would only get some of the story, because that's I would only get what people would be able and willing to share. And so I started thinking about this, and I was like, Well, realistically, I feel like there's pro there. There are definitely independent organizations that do ops off the grid for the CIA and MI six and other Intel agencies. And so I decided to create my own with this idea of it's going to be a joint venture of several different countries that have broadly like minded governments, and they're putting most of their off grid, or like, Black Ops, but not full black ops, into this bucket of like, it's gonna be a small agency that can execute, that can move a little bit faster outside of their bureaucracies, outside of their budget issues, all that kind of stuff, but something where they're broadly committed to working together. And so once I had that backbone idea, the rest it just really fell into place. I was, I got really excited about creating this, this agency, which they, they joke that, it often gets confused with the CIA, because the CIA also is referred to as the

Carolyn Daughters: 26:31

But so at first, when I was reading, I agency. thought, Okay, did I miss it? And then I ended up going back and, like, rereading the first, like 50 pages. Did I miss it? Did I miss like, I didn't miss it? And then it becomes clear. So I was, like, so far in The Ahriman Legacy, and I just stopped, and I went back and I said, Carolyn, you did not read carefully. And I did read carefully, but I thought I missed this. I don't, Sarah, were you thrown by it at all? Or did you understand right from the get go? To me, it's such an interesting detail and so much freedom for an author to be able to create this.

Sarah Harrison: 27:04

Well, I was thinking about it, but of course I'm coming from a position of Punjab spy. And so I said, Is this actually an agency, some other agency like I'm kind of the space of how much is real and how much is fiction, and I never know, wondering. I definitely noticed we were talking about the agency as different from the CIA, but I didn't know if it was, if it was actually a real thing agency.

Carolyn Daughters: 27:41

I was intrigued by it, and then I loved when she walked into this room and just really saw like, all of this representation, and thought like, Okay, some of the greatest minds are all coming together with all of these different perspectives, which surely is raising the game of this organization. So I was, I loved that detail. Now she's doing research. She's, we see her not in the field to start, but as you mentioned, she's going to go into the field. And when she let she's very young. She's six years out of college, I think, or five years out of she grad, five to six years out of college.

Sarah Harrison: 28:21

She's quite young. Well, I mean, depending on which part of the book she started right out of college.

Carolyn Daughters: 28:26

Right. So when, when we meet her, she is 25 or something like this, 20, I think it mid 20s, but she's already gone through so much she's was in the field. We don't know all of the details, but we know that she suffered PTSD when she came out of the field, and that she had an asset and something went terribly wrong, and at one point early in The Ahriman Legacy, she talks about how in her training, she learned that cover stories, you should have, maybe a different name, you have a different general job or general background, but you draw from as much of your real life as possible, and that makes it the story feel more believable, and it's easier to remember, and it just, it hits a lot of marks there. But the flip side of that is that there are emotional costs of deception, particularly when you are actually connecting with people, because you are sharing parts of your true self. Without spoiling anything in The Ahriman Legacy, these sorts of things are going to come into play in this book. And so I just wanted to get your take on on the complexity there.

Puja Guha: 29:45

Absolutely. I think that operatives, when they're undercover, they have to draw from something that's real, so they either can completely disassociate from their own. Um, true self, and really dive into the new identity. If that identity is very different, but then that person becomes completely real, and that's very hard to later distance yourself from. But even if that identity is that cover or legend is very close to who you are, at least in some ways, or at least draws a few things that are real, because you have to seem authentic when you are representing yourself, when you're talking to new friends or sources or assets or anything as part of your cover. And so it's, it's very challenging. I think it's, it's really something that I think operatives struggle with a lot. It's very interesting. It's, it's, so in the new Paramount show, the agency, they're looking at that in a lot of detail. The it's, it's based on an old French, not old, but a French show from about 10 years ago called The Bureau. And that part in both shows is just so well done, like where the lead character is coming off of a several year cover assignment and really struggling with what parts are himself and what parts are or the cover.

Sarah Harrison: 31:24

Do you have any personal, deep places of deception that you're like drawing on to writethese things hypothetically, but that seems tough.

Carolyn Daughters: 31:38

But he's a fiction writer.

Sarah Harrison: 31:41

I don't know, I'm not a fiction writer.

Carolyn Daughters: 31:44

I mean, she's a fiction writer. I mean, you've heard it here for first folks.

Sarah Harrison: 31:52

Probably everyone that reads The Ahriman Legacy.

Puja Guha: 31:59

It's been a frequent joke amongst our friends, especially because with my travels for World Bank, I've gotten all over the place. The big joke when The Ahriman Legacy first came out was that it was my way of reading my husband in, like, telling him the truth.

Carolyn Daughters: 32:21

So everyone here knows me. Read this book, and now you'll know things about me you never knew before.

Sarah Harrison: 32:27

That's awesome. One similarity, I think Patrick speaks a bunch of languages. There's like Farsi, Arabic, French, English.

Carolyn Daughters: 32:39

Hindi? How many languages do you speak?

Puja Guha: 32:44

No, not all of those. I don't speak Farsi, although I can read it because the script is the same as Arabic. A lot of words are actually quite similar to Hindi, so some bits are understandable, but definitely I don't speak Farsi now. I speak English, French, Hindi, Bengali, and then I can read and write Arabic. My speaking is okay. I've forgotten a lot sadly over the years, and I learned classical Arabic, which is not what people speak, sadly. Growing up in Kuwait, you'd think that you get tons of exposure to Arabic, and most people do speak English. Plus, a lot of the guys that I grew up with, I'll say they're Arabic is great, because they, as teenagers, were allowed to to go out more like just on their own and things like that, whereas, like most of the girls I grew up with, we all read and write and can understand bits and pieces, but our speaking is not really good because we just didn't get comfortable. We weren't really allowed to take taxis and go be free.

Carolyn Daughters: 34:07

And there's this thing that I learned about in The Ahriman Legacy, I think it's called du Anja, and so it's a gathering of men to talk generally, but also about politics and culture and economics and or really the philosophy. I'm trying to remember if there was whiskey at the the one year. Yes, and maybe women, it's harder to to have the opportunities with women. Maybe, I don't know, or maybe their opportunities are different.

Puja Guha: 34:41

Yeah, the opportunities are different. So the Diwaniya part of Kuwaiti society tends to be quite limited to the to Arabs and Kuwaitis and yes, do. Male friends get access to it from time to time. Yes, for sure they do. The women's side is very different, though. So while when a specific family hosts a Diwaniya on the male side, there's definitely a function for the women that is usually a lot more clothes that's very family focused or direct or just slightly expanded family. Not very many foreigners would be in the women's get-togethers.

Carolyn Daughters: 35:36

I also want to talk about your writing process and style and so, I mean, you, you wrote this series, which is a series, a spy thriller series, how did, how did you end up with a spy thriller series? What, what were you reading when you were growing up, what inspired you and when, when you finally decided to write a book like what led you to this genre?

Puja Guha: 36:06

So growing up, I read everything off of my dad's bookshelf. Pretty much that was what I read. I read a bunch of stuff that my mom loved too, so lots of classics as well. But my dad read and reads everything. He reads literary fiction. He reads tons of thrillers, he reads mysteries, and so I just devoured his books, and some in some cases, like I read the godfather of his bookshelf, 11 little bit young, little bit young. In high school, I remember, instead of studying for my history final, this was my sophomore year of high school, I was reading icon by Frederick forset. And Frederick forset is a especially his older stuff was a huge inspiration to me when I did start writing, so I was reading icon instead of studying, and I didn't really need to worry about. I knew all the Cold War history because that was what was in the book. And so I think that I definitely read a lot in the thriller genre. I read a lot in the spy thriller genre, for sure, off of his bookshelf, but I read tons of other things. But I think that the travel aspect, the travel and a nuanced view of international politics really played into the idea for my first book when I finally came to which I had never thought I would write, and then I had the idea for The Ahriman Legacy, and then couldn't really stop after that.

Carolyn Daughters: 38:01

You did NaNoWriMo. Is that right? I did, which is National Novel Writing Month, which is November of every year. And so it's 30 days. And I've done NaNoWriMo before, 30 days, where at the end of it, you've produced 50,000 words. Now they could be 50,000 of the best words in the world, or they could be 50,000 words that get you to the 30 drafts subsequent that actually make the book, but that production is so that discipline is is critical. Talk a little bit about the the discipline of writing and having to like you come back. A writer can spend years and years working on one project. They could spend a decade, they could spend a lifetime, or they keep at it every single day, and you just keep tackling it, and sometimes it's tackling your demons. Like, I don't want to work on this book today, I have writer's block, but, but the discipline is what certainly kept you writing. Talk a little bit about that process for you.

Puja Guha: 39:14

Absolutely. I mean, it's it's taken a lot of trial and error to find the best process for me, which now is definitely it's writing five days a week, I write to a word count target. If I'm writing a first draft, that target is typically 1500 words. And then if I'm if I'm traveling, I give myself a slightly lighter target, but I still keep that book going so and then power through until those two very powerful words the end, and then, and then I can take a couple weeks off or something. I also do. I take about two writers retreats, a. Year now where I it's usually about a week. Sometimes it's been longer. Sometimes it's been about five days where I'll go somewhere pretty and fun, and I try and limit any other non writing related work. So with my freelance projects, if it's urgent, I'll do it, but otherwise it's going to wait until the end of the writers retreat. And during writer's retreat, I write 3,000 words a day, minimum. Often more than that, sometimes I've been up to 5,000. So it really speeds the book along. But it's the hardest work that I do.

Carolyn Daughters: 40:42

For context, 5,000 words in a day. So an average book length with great divergence, but an average book length might be 100,000 words. So 5000 words is 1/20 of the output of an average book length, which is incredible. Now, are these writing retreats like your Hey? I want to go to Fiji next year, and you go, or is it an actual writers retreat, formal art thing, where a bunch of people come together and like, what are these writing retreats?

Puja Guha: 41:13

I know people who've done the more organized ones that you referred to, where there's a group. Maybe there's workshops, maybe it's independent or not, but there's a there's a group that's working together. I, in general, have done these self directed I pick a place that I wanted to go to. These days, it's usually a place where I can, after I hit my word target, and I feel like I'm in a good place, I can spend the day on the mountain with my dog. We hike, spend a lot of time outside. Before that, before we had her, before we moved to Colorado, I took one writers retreat in Austin, for example, and it was great. I love Austin, but I feel like now I have to go somewhere in the mountains, because I have to have my dog so but I haven't done one of the more workshop-y ones. The closest I've done to that is one where the place where I was staying was a house where several other authors were seeing we were all working on different projects, and so in the evening, a lot of times we would chit chat about what we were working on, but we weren't really. We weren't critiquing or running any sessions on like how to do something or reading each other's work. We were just bonding over making dinner in the kitchen and that kind of thing, which was great, I think at some point I'd probably like to try one of the more workshop ones. But I think my writing time is better when it's more independently structured. Like I'm very structured, but I don't necessarily want the institution I'm at to provide me with too much structure.

Carolyn Daughters: 43:01

You can structure yourself. You're self motivated. So that, I think that that helps for some people. Self-motivation is great with others. It helps to have that structure provided.

Sarah Harrison: 43:12

Speaking of structure, the way you piece The Ahriman Legacy together, for me, was very interesting, like it was a little it felt like an exploded puzzle was starting to come together. It's like, across time as well as across and across names, because there's all these aliases involved, and you're like, oh, that person is actually that person. And so talk to me a little bit how you came up with this going forward and backward in time, and across all of these countries and it starts coming together, and you're piecing together the pieces really pretty late into the book.

Puja Guha: 43:51

With The Ahriman Legacy, the first draft was written entirely. I did no outlining. The characters appeared the plot. I knew bits and pieces. I'd say I was about halfway through when I knew what the ending was going to be, that kind of thing. But I really didn't do a lot of planning it. Just this is how it showed up to me. And although the first draft was even more complicated, I definitely, I think I had three timelines in the original draft, and pulled it back into two linear timelines as part of revisions, which I think I appreciate now, and I'm sure as readers you do too, but because it was very complicated, but it definitely that's really how the book showed up to me. It's just like how the suspense developed as I got to know the characters, as things with the plot happened and then appeared in my head. I do a lot. More planning with my books now. And I think a lot of authors go through that kind of process where a lot of authors for their first book, because you're figuring out who you are as a writer. You're figuring out your own writing style, you're meeting your characters, your settings. Sometimes a lot of writers start out in this, what we call pantsing, and then some writers stay with that style completely, and others move very much into like a full, plotted out, outlined novel. And sadly for me, I haven't been consistent. Each book is different, and I have just had to learn to accept that. It's frustrating at times, because there will be a time where I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna plot this book out. So my my standalone sirens of memory, which is a psychological thriller, domestic suspense. The Ahriman Legacy is the fastest book I've ever written. I wrote it in five weeks first draft. I will never do it again. Five weeks. I mean, I'll dream of writing something that fast and that well, like in the original draft for the rest of my life, there's no question about it. And it was where I was supposed to be on writers retreat for two weeks, and then I was traveling for my freelance work, and then gonna go visit family in San Francisco and and then my freelance work trip got delayed, and so I could extend my writers retreat, and then I went to San Francisco first, and then when I was close, I was like, I just got finished, and I know the universe propelled me to do it, But I'll never be able to do that again. And, I've also tried to replicate that kind that level of plotting, where I plot out the outline and that level of detail, and think that I'm gonna write that book really, really fast, and then usually I don't like that outline as I get into book, so I have to redo it. And now I feel like seven books in a big part of my process is just accepting that it's not always going to be the same and not to be too hard on myself, and it's just about doing that work every day, like just being happy with that and moving moving the ball all the time.

Sarah Harrison: 47:24

We're reading all these thrillers, but then one of the books we have listed here, The Confluence, you describe as a family drama. Where did that come from? And how does that feel? Kind of as part of your body of work, of writing, a world with psychological thrillers.

Puja Guha: 47:46

I think that so The Confluence is definitely a family drama. In the writing genre world, people would also classify it as literary fiction, which is a genre that confuses me, because it means fiction that has literary themes, which is, in my opinion, almost all fiction, but I think it also has suspense elements, even though that's not the central part of the plot. And it's a story about a woman adopting her son in a fictionalized version of Sudan, where I worked in the book, it is fictionalized, because my dad told me very clearly, if you publish this, you will never be able to go back to Sudan. And he was right. And it's very sad, because I had worked in Sudan, and that is a huge part of what inspired the story. So you're not allowed to go back to Sudan. Um, no, I Well, I mean, now the the political situation in Sudan would prevent me from going back. But no, no, I, since I published the book as the Republic of East Africa fictionalized, that protected me in that sense, so I could go back if, if the things there stabilized enough. And I absolutely loved cartoons, so I would love to go back, but I did predict a revolution there, which has since happened. And you can feel it like it's one of these things, like, sometimes you can feel it in the air when it's when you talk to people, when you hear what they're they're going through, and things like that. And so that was a big part of the book. But how I ended up writing something so different from a thriller, I pulled upon. So there are some pieces of my family's history. There not my personal stories, but a cousin of mine who we lost track of, like who, because his parents disappeared, and so I remember him from. My childhood very well. At my grandfather's funeral, and then nothing after that. And so I think that that was a huge part of the backdrop of that story. And then shortly after I came back from Sudan, it just that story had to be told. And but I do think that the best books within whether you call it family drama or literary fiction or that family saga genre, really do have elements of mystery or suspense or thriller like because a compelling story is also part of, even though you're exploring family themes or whatever, you still have a compelling story to to to move the plot and the characters forward.

Carolyn Daughters: 50:55

Well, I have one quick final question, and we will actually wrap this up, or maybe just keep you for a couple more hours, as as is our thing. What are you working on now? I know you mentioned 60 countries you've been to, and in your perfect world, at some point you're going to, like, set a book in all of these different places you've been. So what? What is the setting for this?

Puja Guha: 51:22

I'm working on two things. I just finished a first draft of a new a new book that'll start a new series. The lead character, her name is Maya Das. Her story definitely has tons of travel. She starts out as a World Bank consultant like me, working in in West Africa. And then the book takes her all over the place, from West Africa to well, Montana for training, and then Nigeria, Paris, a boat on the Aegean Turkey and the Pacific Islands. So I did put a lot of my settings into this book, because I don't think if I just do one setting per book, I'm ever gonna meet that goal.

Carolyn Daughters: 52:16

Three to four books a year.

Puja Guha: 52:20

So that's one that I'm really excited about, and then I'm also working on, and I'm just starting to do revisions on this. I just got a bunch of comments back from my agent, so we'll see. When we go out on submission, maybe the book will come out in 2026 or early 2027, 2026, would be amazing, if that is possible. But this is an alternate history. It is set in 91 the premise is that the coup, the CIA, orchestrated coup in the 50s in Iran, fails, and the whole thing is classified and covered up. And so 1991 Middle East looks a bit different. You've not had because Ayatollah didn't come to power. You did not have the Iran Iraq War. So while you still have Saddam in Iraq, you don't have the Gulf War, but you still have, some of those key players and a lot of the political dynamics and a lot of things that I think are very relatable, even though it is an alternate version of history. And the lead character Kim SHA is a journalist at that time, and she stumbles upon she's an obituary writer, which is not really what she wants to be. She wants to be an investigative journalist, but she's just stuck, and she writes an obituary for this guy who looks like a State Department employee who died in his mid 70s. No big deal. And then it turns out a source comes forward, and he was the murdered guy with CIA, and he was part of the original coup attempt in Iran and the subsequent cover ups, and he was about to come forward with information related to that as a whistleblower, because of all these things that are happening in the modern day, part of The story, the 1991 part of the story. And so it's, it's really, really interesting and fun to imagine and write, because I do think that the Middle East would look very different if the biggest democracy had remained a democracy. And one of the the deepest regrets of my life is probably that I will never be able to go to Iran. That is somewhere that I have absolutely like, there's so much history there. It's so beautiful, like, I would absolutely love to go. But, having published the books that I published. And without a pen name, I think I would be very cautious, no, but I think I'm just not on the radar there, so, but I would definitely be concerned about going there. And, I mean, I don't know if the World Bank was working in Iran, and if I had the opportunity for a project there, I would certainly try and do it, I think with their protection, I think I'd be fine. But right now, the World Bank has no work in Iran, so plus I think going there would, would absolutely, I'm not sure my husband would would handle that, but he might have to, if the occasion ever arose. But

Sarah Harrison: 55:42

all super fascinating. It was like speculative fiction, but for like, the Middle East political situation, can't wait for that to come out. Thank you. Well, Puja, we've kept you longer than you said we would.

Puja Guha: 55:59

I'm having a great time.

Sarah Harrison: 56:04

It's been wonderful to have you go check out all of her books if you can. Where can folks find you? Do you have your website, your social you'd like to share?

Puja Guha: 56:14

I mean, the easiest way to find me and my stuff is on my Amazon page with my name, Puja Guha. I have a website. It is currently down, but it will be back up soon. I It's definitely something I have to fix. I don't know how it happened, but it'll get fixed. I mean, I'm also on all the social medias. I'm not very active, but if people reach out to me, I do reply, but Amazon is definitely in. It's been wonderful to have you here in our tiny studio. I highly recommend that our listeners read The Ahriman Legacy, the first book in the five-book series. So lots of fun reading. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me. This was amazing.

Sarah Harrison: 57:19

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Carolyn Daughters: 57:42

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Sarah Harrison: 58:05

We want to thank you for listening to our episode on The Ahriman Legacy and joining us on our journey through the history of mystery. We absolutely adore you until next time, Stay Mysterious.